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Why is there no Get Latest in TS 6.1 Std?

sarre

Hi,

Being new to TS 6.1 I'm surprised that I can't find anything like "Get Latest" in CC Standard.
(And no Deploy, but that I can live with.)

I must admit that I'm not used to TS 5.5 WebDesk either (but I know that there is no Get Latest there too).
Nevertheless I had the impression that those "simplified" interfaces were supposed to fit those that aren't "every day users".
What's the point with tools that will require that someone else starts the job?

Can't people be trusted...? ;-)

Regards,
Sarre

Opponent

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Adam Stoller

Heh - yet another reason not to use CCStd (IMO) and instead use CCPro ...

--fish
Senior Consultant, Quotient Inc.
http://www.quotient-inc.com

JonathonG

For an individual file, CC Std offers "Undo Changes". Otherwise, I believe it prompts for a "Get Latest" on edit. So, that would seem to reduce the need for a blanket "Get Latest" for the whole WA.

On the whole though, I prefer to stick to CC Pro.

Jonathon
Interwoven Developer
Allstate, Inc.

iwovGraduate

What's the point with tools that will require that someone else starts the job?

I totally agree with you, however there are a lot of customers who ask for exactly the same. I have lost coun't how many times I have heard from people who manage TS that "we don't want our users to worry about stuff like Get Latest".

For me its just like what Adam says - one more reason not to use CCStd.

smenon

CC Std hides the notion of a GetLatest from the end user because you don't want business users having to worry about concepts such as submit and get latest. CC Std does an "automatic get latest" for the user when the user chooses to edit a file. It also handles locking and unlocking for the files transaprent to the user so that the user can never get into a conflict scenario using CC Std. The CC Std wizards help the user walk through a series of steps that will ultimately result the file being submitted. Hence, you won't find a submit, lock, unlock or get latest option exposed in CC Std because the UI was built to hide those concepts from casual contributors.

--Sunil Menon
Product Manager
Interwoven, Inc.

Johnny

We've found that our casual business users are very welcoming to the standard interface.
I expected as much too.

I thought I'd add some positive news! Smiley Happy

John Cuiuli

smenon

Thank you.. We have lots of other customers that have rolled out the CC Std UI to their casual contributors and they really like the portal look and feel of the UI and the wizard dirven approach to content contribution. I am sure that there will be others that prefer CC Pro over CC Std.

--Sunil Menon
Product Manager
Interwoven, Inc.

NathansDIS

as an administrator, do you use CCSTD? I use CCPRO almost exclusively. I do notice that I often have no idea what our ccstd contributors are talking about when they report an issue, coincidence? hmmmm.... ;D

-nathan
wa dis

sarre

Thanks everyone for all your kind contributions!

But we must have gone wrong somewhere after all...

Our CC Std users don't get any automatic GetLatest. The conflict (i.e. with a later version in the Staging Area) is not shown until after the Submit operation.

The reply is "Submission succeeded", but under My Tasks you find your submits with a flag and the information "Files cannot be submitted because there are conflicts. Conflicts can only be resolved by advanced users. Contact your system administrator to correctly configure your system."

Are there any settings that we have missed or what?

Regards,
Sarre

Opponent

sarre

No, I use CC Pro, but since IW has been so good at telling our users that CC Std is such a big improvement, we are forced to have that working too...

/Sarre

Opponent

RonaldV

Same here,

no auto get-latest.

From https://support.interwoven.com/kb/kb_show_article2.asp?ArticleID=50449:

"The ContentCenter Standard User Interface is designed to allow business users to contribute content with a minimum of training and confusion. Because of this, it does not have a "get latest" operation. This may create problems if content is submitted from another workarea and no one has done a "get latest" intothe new workarea.

The recommended model is that each workarea on a branch have at least one editor-level user who is responsible for it and assigns work to authors that work within this workarea. This user would then "Get Latest" before assigning work to an author.

An alternative, in an environment where authors do work on their own initiative rather than having work assigned to them, is to use a TeamSite Workflow to keep the authors' workarea up to date, by adding updatetasks to update workareas shared by authors following the submittask once content is approved on the branch.

A second alternative is to limit the branches utilized by business users to one workarea. Development could still take place in other branches, using the traditional workarea-per-developer method."

Pretty stupid I would say, you build a whole new gui for 'casual-contributors" but an auto-get-latest is too much to ask for... :-) Every customer has to build this himself into his CMS.

In case Iwov reads this: Could this be a feature request?

Ronald

TS552/TS65, Win2k
OD560/OD601

gzevin

>In case Iwov reads this: Could this be a feature request?

why? I thought IWOV has explained their position. I actually do agree with them ...

you cannot get by by using only CC STD, one would need someone who looks after the site, so they cannot avoid using CC PRO anyway...

Greg Zevin, Ph.D. Comp. Sc.
Independent Interwoven Consultant/Architect
Sydney, AU

RonaldV

Well,

in my opinion you either:
- hide the complexity for the user properly and make some sort of auto-get-latest
- or you don't hide but explain it to the users.

The current proposed solutions are the worst of both worlds:
- conflicts at actual submit-time
- hire some dude who acts as a full time "get-latest"-action
- let users use the pro-gui

I know I'm over simplifying here but hé using software should make life easier.

Ronald

TS552/TS65, Win2k
OD560/OD601

gzevin

well, all the functionality is there. a worflow task can get latest in the end, or one can run a cron job, once in a while. The conflicts could also be overridden automatically. All depends on your requirements and it's not THAT hard to implement.

IMO, CC STD has a very limited use in general, if at all, but the idea was to remove all the stuff that the 'casual' users will have problems with.

Greg Zevin, Ph.D. Comp. Sc.
Independent Interwoven Consultant/Architect
Sydney, AU

miletwo

I'm truly surprised that get latest is not done automagically at login. You'd think this would be no-brainer for the usability gurus that built this fantastic new interface, but it appears to have been missed.

For those that desire this functionality, I'm sure that coding a workflow that triggers on login shouldn't be to difficult to implement into CCSTD, I'll be looking into it myself.

Regards,

Jeremy Anderson

Quis custodit custodem

gzevin

>I'm truly surprised that get latest is not done automagically at login. You'd think this >would be no-brainer for the usability gurus that built this fantastic new interface, but it >appears to have been missed.

>For those that desire this functionality, I'm sure that coding a workflow that triggers on >login shouldn't be to difficult to implement into CCSTD, I'll be looking into it myself.

because of the branching/work model that could be chosen I don't it is practical to do get latest automatically.. In many cases this could simply destroy work in progress.

this is why I am in favour of customizing this functionality in workflow on per need basis.

Greg Zevin, Ph.D. Comp. Sc.
Independent Interwoven Consultant/Architect
Sydney, AU

Adam Stoller

If you don't use the overwrite flags for iwupdate - it should only update those files which are missing and those files which are unmodified - it should not update any file that is modified (I'm not sure about removing files that no longer exist in staging though -- a little testing on your part would probably be able to verify that).

--fish
Senior Consultant, Quotient Inc.
http://www.quotient-inc.com

gzevin

I agree .. however this could lead to conflict resolutions, etc, etc.. that kind of things we don't want to know (and it takes us abck to the idea that Get Latest should be done by an experienced editor/admin)

Greg Zevin, Ph.D. Comp. Sc.
Independent Interwoven Consultant/Architect
Sydney, AU

Adam Stoller

The conflict, if any, would happen when the already-modified file is submitted - and it would happen regardless of whether you did a Get Latest of all non-modified files or not.

If CCStd does not perform a Get Latest on Edit (of currently non-modified files -- which I *thought* it did - but I don't have a system to verify it on right now) - then the cost of not doing a Get Latest to update all non-modified files in workareas will lead to *more* conflicts.

This being said - the general reason for *not* automating the [non-overwriting] Get Latest is if there are relationships between the various files that could break if parts are updated while other parts are not -- this would certainly be the case for code development where include files and such that are depended upon by other source files and which get updated out of sync from the "whole" could cause problems -- it is much less often the case with [pure] web content.

If you would be planning to implement an automated process for updating the workareas - I would recommend that you do so with the '-r' flag to capture the results of the updating, and that you have that information either archived or emailed to someone(s), or both. That way there would be an audit trail of sorts to follow in the case that something goes wrong.

FWIW - in the 6.5SP1 version of the CLT manual - there is a "replication script" [starting around page 232] which could be *adapted* to perform this operation -- or you could write it from scratch [it might be easier than trying to figure out how to modify the existing code for the purpose at hand]

Another option would be to customize the UI such that all occurences of the Edit button/link called a custom script which checked first to see if the file is modified, and if not - check to see it the file differs from that in staging (this might be accomplished in one step using the iwcmp CLT or similar CSSDK function[?]) - if the file is the same, I believe you will receive no output - if the files differ - then you will see 'f+' in one of the first two columns and/or an 'x' in one of them too -- the 'x' would indicate a deletion, the 'f+' would indicate a modification. If you see either two 'f+'s or an 'f+' and an 'x' then you already know there is a conflict brewing - if (assuming you provide staging as the first parameter and the workarea as the second) you see an 'f+' in the first column and an 'f' in the second - the file is out of date and should be updated with iwupdate, otherwise don't update it. After all of this, you would then want to invoke the OOTB edit function which could *probably* be done via redirecting to the CCI URL for editing the desired file.

--fish
Senior Consultant, Quotient Inc.
http://www.quotient-inc.com

gzevin

I don't want to start experimanting now, but during Get Latest there could be some many things happening - this is what I am talking about...

also are you suggesting to introduce all these custom scripts in CC STD? for casual users.?

Greg Zevin, Ph.D. Comp. Sc.
Independent Interwoven Consultant/Architect
Sydney, AU

Adam Stoller

also are you suggesting to introduce all these custom scripts in CC STD? for casual users.?

Well - I proposed a number of alternatives - but - if you're dealing with casual web content users (as opposed to code developers) - yes - for the reason stated that you will be *less* likely to run into conflict situations (this is still assuming that this is *not* the default action in CCStd already).

(FWIW - the project I've been on for the last couple of years only has one workarea per branch for the content branches - so we don't have this problem. That, plus we'll be using CCPro when we roll out 6.5 in the next couple of weeks)

--fish
Senior Consultant, Quotient Inc.
http://www.quotient-inc.com

GanttTest.rptdesign

gzevin

the project I've been on for the last couple of years only has one workarea per branch for the content branches

aha! this is the origin of your light take of this issue Smiley Happy

Greg Zevin, Ph.D. Comp. Sc.
Independent Interwoven Consultant/Architect
Sydney, AU

Adam Stoller

Perhaps - but I *have* implemented an automated Get Latest type script for customers in the past - using the '-r' flag and mailing results to the workarea owner and the TS Admin as part of the script. While it's been probably over 4 years since I did this, I was never informed of any problems caused by it.

--fish
Senior Consultant, Quotient Inc.
http://www.quotient-inc.com

nico

I just discovered this issue today, using ts 6.5 sp1 win, totally bummed that IW has not thrown in the auto get latest feature in ccs.

What are all of you doing to deal with this problem? I would like a get latest to occur each time someone in ccs initiated an edit, as I'm starting to get bombarded by all these workflow conflicts, uber lame.

Nico