I'm puzzled

Hi,

I just wanted to drop some thoughts about Teamsite.
I spent the last 5 years working on IT, installing and configuring security & network software. If anyone ever tried that, you know that is a real pain sometimes. Problems arise from where you less suspect, you start inspecting packets, streams, bytes, a bunch of protocols, it is really messy.

But, it was time to move on, and I accept to work in this project (don't ask me why, its a long subject).
I have a school background on programming, so that's not really a big problem.

For the first time this company decided to use InterWoven on a costumer. So, no internal help available.

What I dislike, is the lack of consistency.
In the last couple of weeks I installed TS 5 times in 3 different servers. Every time I saw different things not working. Are they bugs ? don't know! Am I stupid ? maybe.
iwproxy crashes, iwservlet refuses to run, patches are really terrible to aply (copy files to destination dir???), patch interdependence is terrible... TS patch X replaces file Y, but TST patch W also replace it... so, which one do I apply second?

Then we get into the programming stuff... the manuals are ridiculary small. I see new tags every now and then only on examples (the TST container tag) , or on posts here. Someone points out a technote, and voila, something that isn't in the manuals.
manual chapters like "Setting Up Presentation Templates that span across *3* entire pages, one being a image.
functions, cgis, perl packages without documentation..

its giving me the creeps.
You can say its a work in progress;
You can say that I should take the one(two) day courses
You can say a lot of things...

But this software costs *real* money.
isn't supposed that a software whose release is not 0.1 alpha won't have bugs like those fixes in 5.0.1 SP1 ? or even SP2?
isn't supposed to be true that documentation sells a product?

If I can find how its done by myself 1) I won't get disappointed; 2) I'll finish my work on time; 3) I won't post 5 problems a day in the forums; 4) I would tell everybody how happy I am with the product and won't try to go to another CMS...

well, just my 2 cents.
If you're at Interwoven, don't be offended with the post. Its just me stating random thoughts. I'm not expecting nothing, I'm just in a middle of a reboot wihout nothing to do Smiley Tongue

--
Duarte Cordeiro
Neoris Pootugal

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Migrateduser

I certainly understand your pain. However I think it's fair to say that TeamSite is a fairly complex piece of software and coming in blind and being expected to be able to get it up and running is asking a lot of someone. I think it's fair to expect you to get some training, whether it be one of Interwoven's classes or some consulting. It's not really fair of you to blame the product for your ignorance - no offense, I'm just being candid. On the other hand, I absolutely agree with your points about the documentation, as I have stated many times in my posts. It takes time to learn the nuances of a product this complex. We used Interwoven Professional Services to help when we first started. Over time, we have gained a decent understanding of the product, but there are still things that happen that make us shake our heads. I don't think, though, that Interwoven is any worse than most others at support. In fact, with this DevNet site - a huge help in my opinion - I think it shows that they are doing the right thing and headed in the right direction. This product does cost a lot of money, and in the grand scheme of things, it makes sense to get some training to get you a better understanding of the job you have accepted.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

duartecordeiro

don't get me wrong.
I know that I'm starting from scratch. The problem is in there. You need info to be fed to you, but there's no much available.
I just did a google search and you only find 2 tech sites on interwoven.
Without these forums, I was surelly dead by now Smiley Happy

And IW guys tend to answer most questions in here (and you btw).
On the other hand, the courses are cheap IF you work on US. We are across the ocean, on Portugal... so $5,000 for 8 hours of Workflow basics.. its a little too much I think. Mainly because I know how courses are. I've attended manny and gave a couple. What you see in a course week, can be sumarized in 1 day max. so, if the course duraction is a day....

Saying that, I must also say that if the product was no good.. costumers wouldn't want it.
What I wanted to say in the previous post was simply that is really harder to start if you don't have documentation. Smiley Happy

--
Duarte Cordeiro
Neoris Pootugal

Migrateduser

I realized while writing my response that it was probably not feasible for you to get training since you are outside the US. It would be interesting to find out from Interwoven if they have any plans to provide training sites outside of the US. Perhaps the online based training is decent? I have no idea what is even offered as online training. Beefing that up would definitely help you folks outside the US. I agree the documentation is lacking. There is a lot of high level documentation provided, but not much low level documentation. I have had people like Adam Stoller and Bob Walden respond to these issues with the hopes of providing better, more advanced and thorough documentation. The best resource by far is this site. It is successful because Interwoven engineers regularly monitor it. The level of expertise in here is quite good. I have also noticed that calling tech support gets you someone who actually understands what you are talking about more often than not. Entering cases through the support web site still takes days for an initial response, though.

Bottom line is, these things take time to evolve. For all my complaining, I think Interwoven is making great strides in customer support. I think if we continue to request better documentation that it will happen.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

Adam Stoller

We currently only have one official training site outside of the US (in the UK, Ascot) - but it may be worth checking with the training coordinators (Training or Training EMEA) to find out if there are any potential alternatives within your area.

We are looking to extend our Web Based Training (WBT) offerings - but for some courses, especially those for TeamSite [system] Administration - where you really want to have your hands on a server that you can play with and reboot (without infuriating other people in your company) - you really need to go through Instructor Led Training (ILT) in a physical classroom setting.

We realize everyone's budgets are pretty short (ours is too - which makes it difficult to open up training centers all over the world) - so we try very hard to make sure the classes we offer provide the training that is needed and a good ROI.

--fish
(Interwoven, Curriculum Development)