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Livesite Pages embedded in HTML's

System

Recently, based on my experience. Showcasing Livesite and its capabilities is a easy work. It really works well in when building websites from scratch. Now, how about optimizing existing websites? When i say optimizing, lets say a client is using a traditional Teamsite implementation which generates HTML's using standard TPL's and now they want to introduce Livesite to abstract the TPL logic in a business friendly manner. The challenge what we will face here is portability & adaptability as it would impose the following challenges.

a) How would you move from a current HTML world to livesite world incrementally ?
b) We cannot do a big bang and replace all HTML pages to Livesite Pages, as the landscape is huge this may not be feasible based on budget and business constraints.

I'm sure people would have been through this scenario all the time. My question to the group is :

1. What is the approach you have used to move from a current website paradigm to the Livesite Paradigm?

2. Would Livesite support embedding module Livesite pages in existing HTML pages? as this might be the intermediate evolution path where, to begin with we start moving some content to Livesite to enable usability stuff, and embed those Livesite module pages in existing HTML's.

Example: Currently, I have a Homepage.html which contains module promotion.html. To begin with, we would move the promotion.html content to livesite and Embed the promotion.page in Homepage.html.

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Comments

CRB

Great questions and i cant wait to see what people have to say about them!
we are actually in a similar situation so i thought to share what i have in mind. the client heard a lot of great things about LS and they want to make use of those things asap. and like you, we are considering two paths.
1) major project to convert the entire site from html based pages to LiveSite based pages to take advantage of functionalities like the sitemap management.
2) to use just sitepublisher at first to gradually replace parts of the site with sitepublisher components.

i dont think they are ready for path 1, since it is a major project which needs budget and time. so we are looking into path 2, the only problem with that is from what i understand whatever you develop with sitepublisher, you generate it as html then include it in existing html pages using SSI or similar mechanism. my only problem with that is that we are already doing something similar tyo that, we broke the html pages into html components and each component is a formpublisher template so the content authors handle the components as DCRs. so if we use sitepublisher alone, it will be just to provide different way to do the same thing we are already doing. if that is all i can get from sitepublisher alone then i dont think it is worth considering (unless of course we use livesite runtime with it).

so my question here is:
what does sitepublisher alone offer in terms of functionality and user experience for users like us with static templated site??

Migrateduser

HI CRB,

I think, when you talk about just Sitepublisher, your options become really limited. The only integration pattern between sitepublisher and your web Tier would be to generate HTML/JSP/ASP kind of pattern. With just the introduction of Sitepublisher, you basically abstract all the TPL logic in a business friendly manner and provide more flexibility in managing and publishing pages.

Now, Lets say we also use Livesite to get away from the generation pradigm now iam in a pull mechanism where my livesite pages or tags will pull content from the runtime repository. Taking this one step further, since i dont have the flexibility to convert the page into livesite page, Can we start converting only portions of the page into Livesite and embed those with in the HTML. This will give me the flexibility, to slowly set up the client to move slowly towards Livesite Pradigm.

vpatel

Good questions!

In the "ideal" world, you'll just move straight to SP/LS and everything would work just fine! However, whenever that is not possible (aka "phased" migration), here is what I have seen to work well:

Assumption: you are using LS Runtime and you are NOT generating static HTML/JSP/ASP from .page files.

1. Take a "sub-section" of the site and migrate that section over to SP/LS. Taking some pages here and some pages there and migrating them will be painful.

2. Also, if possible, migrate entire pages instead of portions of a given page. I agree SP provides the functionality to break a page down into components however when you are migrating it'll be a bit easier to have the entire page.

Items 1 & 2 will clearly separate your non-LS pages versus LS pages -- this will make it easier for you to serve up non-LS pages (i.e. HTML pages from web server OR JSP pages from your app server or ASP pages from .NET) and LS pages (from LS server) with minimal web/app server configurations.

Also keep in mind, that including LS pages within a static HTML (.html extension) will be extremely difficult if not impossible. However, you can always include static .html pages within LS pages.

If you wanted to include LS pages within JSP pages then you can definitely do that using LS TagLibs (may have some licensing implications). If you wanted to include LS pages within ASP pages then (in the current product state) there are some options there as well with some customizations.

Again these are just high level things that I have seen to work for customers. These may or may not apply to your specific situation based on your actual implementation and various other factors.

so my question here is:
what does sitepublisher alone offer in terms of functionality and user experience for users like us with static templated site??

SP is allows users to control the layout of the page (drag and drop) + it allows users to in-context-edit their content. There may be more things that users like about it but those are the two big ones that I hear about all the time.

HTH!

Migrateduser

Hi vpatel,

that's definitely a good suggestion. When it comes to cost and effort, it makes sense to do which is value add for the business (high value for business). The value add for some of the clients may not be sections of the page. Its always at a business level.

Example: If the budget is coming from marketing and they are spending that money to better optimize the marketing content. so subsection of the site does not add business values. Instead i would move all the marketing content to a sitepublisher paradigm and provide them with a blend of what they have today and a flexibility for marketing to blend into the current state. This gives a better business value and also sets a platform for other business units.

Hence i was asking, can i Embed livesite module pages in an existing HTML pages. this will enable me to move manage marketing content in site publisher paradigm and embed those promotion modules / marketing content modules with livesite, so that i have a mix of HTML ( content coming from generated HTMl) and livesite content.

end of the day, This will help me provide business the intended functionality also setup the client on a path to a future platform

CRB

SP is allows users to control the layout of the page (drag and drop) + it allows users to in-context-edit their content. There may be more things that users like about it but those are the two big ones that I hear about all the time.

HTH!

First, thank you for very valuable input!

from playing with SP and development guide, i understood that SP tools like drag n drop and in-context editing only work with .page pages which are pages created by SP for LS to render. so for the users to have that feature, i need to convert all my existing html pages to .page then convert them back to html everytime they are modified. i am sure i am missing a link here, so i am trying to find it Smiley Happy

by figuring out the usefullness of SP with plain html pages without having to create or convert to .page and without having to change the structure of my site (which is just regular folders) to a structure that SP understands like /sites/site/pages.page. because anything that involves converting or migrating existing pages is major project for us because of the very large number of files.

and what is typical technical process to convert section of static html pages to .page pages?

Now, Lets say we also use Livesite to get away from the generation pradigm now iam in a pull mechanism where my livesite pages or tags will pull content from the runtime repository. Taking this one step further, since i dont have the flexibility to convert the page into livesite page, Can we start converting only portions of the page into Livesite and embed those with in the HTML. This will give me the flexibility, to slowly set up the client to move slowly towards Livesite Pradigm.

that is great idea if it is possible. this means that you will have LS runtime engine running for those components? which puts you in better position than us Smiley Happy

. as you already concluded, we are only looking into the dev side of LS (without a LS runtime env).

SplitLongTextOverMultipleColumns.rptdesign

Migrateduser

2. Would Livesite support embedding module Livesite pages in existing HTML pages? as this might be the intermediate evolution path where, to begin with we start moving some content to Livesite to enable usability stuff, and embed those Livesite module pages in existing HTML's

From version 6.7.2, LiveSite pages/sections of pages can be embedded in JSP through tags.