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Not only was GearUp cancelled...

System

But so was the Focus Group for March, and I can only assume the Focus Group for October will be quietly cancelled as well. I find it extremely disappointing that the twice yearly Focus Groups that Interwoven promised to hold have gone into the same abyss as GearUp. The spin they're putting on it is that the local user groups are much more useful to discuss and gather the kind of information that the Focus Group allowed for. What utter nonsense. Our local user group is nothing compared to the Focus Group. Being able to talk to other customers who are doing the same kinds of things we are doing and/or would like to do in the future was such a productive thing for us.

It makes me wonder about the health of Interwoven as a company and about the focus on TeamSite itself. This raises a big red flag for me.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

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Migrateduser

More BS: only customers are allowed at user groups - I think Interwoven is trying to exclude external consultants and contractors, even if they could add a lot of value for their customers.

Migrateduser

I completely agree with this. It's like a sucker punch to those of us who have worked as consultants with the Interwoven suite of products.

I also voiced my concerns about the discontinuation of Gear-Up last year. Unfortunately, there wasn't a lot of response to my posting. I hope that more people will stand up and request that Interwoven give us the interaction with other developers, users, and customers that we require to be successful with these products and to gain new ideas about the ways other similar companies are using the Interwoven products. I know that everyone at our user group has a different way in which they use the products: different operating systems, different user base, different interfaces, different technologies on the back-end, etc. I believe that our user group is one of the biggest, but it still doesn't seem like a big enough sampling of ideas.

I too worry about the direction that Interwoven is taking and wonder about the health of the company.

- Jason

AKB

I agree totally and count me in if we plan to write to Interwoven or if Lissa is reading this...

Migrateduser

One of the excuses made by Interwoven as to why the Focus Group has been cancelled was that some customers were unwilling to make the travel expenses to get to San Francisco. I certainly thought the showing in the October Focus Group was pretty good. And an even better idea would be just to invite more customers. I'll bet there are plenty of folks who have never been invited to a Focus Group that would welcome the opportunity. If some of the major customers don't want to lose their voice in how Interwoven moves toward the future, then they will cough up the money to get to the Focus Group. Or maybe it's just that Interwoven doesn't want to spend the money to put it on.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

Migrateduser

Another reason why non-customers should be allowed to attend these things - they work on more diverse projects and see how different companies are implementing. This gives them much better perspective in providing feedback to Interwoven and helping other customers (we're all trying to solve the same problems).

Migrateduser

Dave,

I tend to think that your latter statement is closer to the truth. It seems like there's been a recent pull away from existing customers.

- Jason

Migrateduser

John,

You're exactly right. That's one of my biggest arguments as well. I've seen implementations at several fortune 500 companies. I know that most companies are trying to solve the same problems.

It also seems that Interwoven is perfectly willing to accept consultant money to get training, but once you're a certified consultant, you can't take part in any Interwoven (non-virtual) events. Just seems like bad business.

- Jason

Migrateduser

Interwoven is just another evil technology company. When I turned down a fulltime job with Interwoven in Singapore they put me on some kind of blacklist for Interwoven projects in Europe (while it's true that I'm paranoid I actually have emails/documents proving this).

Migrateduser

> It seems like there's been a recent pull away from existing customers.

Actually I have never felt that Interwoven was in touch with their customers - every contact is a high-pressure sales pitch, especially for PSO. At the event at their headquarters a few weeks ago it was clear that the intention is to sell more products to the existing customer base than to get new customers (cross-marketing to existing customers is always easier). I think it all depends what part of the elephant you touch.

Migrateduser

That's the thing about the Focus Group that was so great - it was all about the customers. Interwoven did pitches on where the products were going and what they planned to do down the road, and us customers got to cheer, argue, complain and carve out more appropriate paths. And it seemd Interwoven actually listened. I have seen them change direction based on Focus Group input. It's really a remarkable way to provide input as a customer. I agree with you that much of the rest of the interaction with Interwoven folks is marketing fluff. And that extends to the User Groups that are supposed to replace Focus Groups. There's just not enough of a voice in User Groups to make a difference. In the Focus Groups, which I agree should be opened up to consultants - at least the more active ones, it's all about the customers. They always open up the Focus Group with the tagline The customers are our compass. Evidently the compass is stuck pointing south.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

Migrateduser

Partners/consultants have been excluded from UserGroup meetings because there have been instances where they have used the meetings for their own agendas, for example to solicit business. UserGroup participation is managed jointly with the local Chapter President. If you are a consultant and would like to attend on an exception basis, please feel free to email me and we can discuss access with your local Chapter President.

Kathleen Means
Interwoven Customer Advocacy
(408) 530-5718

nipper

>If you are a consultant and would like to attend on an exception basis, please feel free to email me and we can
>discuss access with your local Chapter President.

Ok, a reasonable answer to ONE of the comments posted here.

Migrateduser

Kathleen,

Instead of banning all consultants and partners, why not instead just make the rule known that solicitation of consulting business is grounds for permanent expulsion from the user group? Until your posting (just now), I was not even aware that soliciting consulting work at an IUG was forbidden. Perhaps the issue is that the "rules" are not presented as opposed to a certain classification of people (aka consultants). In fact, I don't see any rules nor terms and conditions on anything to do with IUG. Not even on the confirmation email. If there are things that you want people not to do at IUG meetings, perhaps it's a better idea to at least make the rules available before cutting an entire group of people from being able to participate.

I have personally attended every IUG meeting in my area since it was started. I'd very much like to continue to attend. Not only do I get a lot out of it, but I'm able to share a lot as well.

- Jason
PS: Last month's IUG was the first time I'd ever had a request for my business card and/or services at an IUG. No, it was not solicitted.

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Migrateduser

> Partners/consultants have been excluded from UserGroup meetings because there have been instances where they have used the meetings for their own agendas, for example to solicit business.

Yes, and Interwoven would never do such a thing.

Migrateduser

Anyway it should be called "Customer/Revenue Target" Group instead of User Group - we are way beyond Users.

Migrateduser

And this isn't even the direct issue. Even if you invite consultants and contractors to the User Group meetings, there's still a huge disconnect with the rest of the world and the product set as a whole. There's very little that can be accomplished in a 2 hour User Group meeting. Whoever from Interwoven that shows up is only going to be representing one product and maybe will be able to provide more than just marketing spin. And if it's not a product I care about, I'm screwed till the next UG meeting in 3 months time. On the other hand at the Focus Group, there are the 2 separate tracks - for business users and developers. And many engineers are there to give details and background on technical aspects of upcoming product changes. If there's a track that I'm not interested in, there's always someone - another customer or an Interwoven engineer - I can talk to one-on-one. The ability to mingle with customers who are doing what we're doing, or better yet what we want to be doing, is priceless. We don't have anyone in our local User Group community that is doing anything remotely like us. It's typically people coming to us to find out what we're doing. How does that help me as a customer?

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

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Migrateduser

I've forwarded this thread to the team responsible for the Focus Group decision. Please stay tuned.

lissa

Migrateduser

Thank you...I'm anxious to see what they'll say.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

Migrateduser

Interwoven staff only attends U.S. UserGroup meetings when they are invited by the Chapter President. Each Chapter is run differently. Some invite Interwoven to make presentations (For example, the Seattle and Portland groups just had presentations on MediaBin 4.0) and others have no Interwoven attendees at any meetings (for example, the Chicago group is run this way).

Kathleen Means
Interwoven Customer Advocacy
(408) 530-5718

Baeck

Having been both an Interwoven customer and now a consultant, I can attest to the quality of experience at the Focus Groups. In fact, I think I met the illustrious Smitty at the Focus Group last March. I can also safely say that the User Groups do not even begin to compare to the Focus Group experience.

I think the reason behind the focus group cancellation was probably Interwoven's reluctance to spend the money, although I can't say that I totally blame them - that's part of being a financially responsible company. However, the focus groups were held in San Francisco, which is not necessarily the most cost-efficient environment for Interwoven, or its customers. I don't think the customers demand the most glamorous settings or the highest quality meals - those aren't the point of the Focus Group in the first place.

The least IWOV could do would be to schedule the Focus Group in a more central location and cover fewer of the expenses of the attendees. After all, the chance to provide direct input provides a service that is certainly worth paying for - if it's going to be acted upon. Invite customers and consultants to attend and if you find that the size is too much to handle, you can revise the invitation list for the next group accordingly.

My point here is: Try to make something work before you scrap the entire project.

Aaron Baecker
Senior Consultant
Quotient, Inc.
http://www.Quotient-Inc.com

Migrateduser

Sorry Dave,

I don't mean to take away from the main focus of this thread. I agree that focus groups much more useful than the IUG for getting feedback to Interwoven. I was lucky enough to get to attend a focus group as a consultant and it was an amazing experience. I felt that everyone in attendance had an equal ability to voice their opinions and give some direction to Interwoven's direction.

I also agree with you about the IUG. I personally never thought that once per quarter was often enough. Maybe we should start a monthly IDG (Interwoven Developers Group.) :-) I honestly wasn't too excited when I heard that MediaBin was going to be presented at the last IUG, but the presentation was really good and after seeing it, I saw a lot of potential uses for it.

- Jason

Migrateduser

Hi Aaron - thanks for using a positive adjective - I do appreciate that Smiley Happy

. I think someone like you saying what you just did will go a lot farther than me saying it. I feel as if I've put myself in a position of being the boy who cried wolf, and so when I raise a concern, it might only be regarded at Interwoven as Dave complaining again, whereas someone like you raising the same concern will actually be taken very seriously. It's nice to see.

I always thought that Interwoven having the Focus Group in San Francisco was a cost cutting measure. Only because they are headquartered in the Bay Area and they all can drive up to the event rather than all travel and stay at a hotel in another city. I certainly wouldn't mind if the thing was in a less expensive area like San Jose, but still nearby so that more Interwoven engineers could attend. I fear that if they move the event to another state or city, they won't bring anyone but marketing people. Ugh. But whatever works. I couldn't agree more with you when you say to try something else before abandoning it. Happy to see someone else speak up. Hope to see you at another Focus Group someday.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

Migrateduser

I was also not too excited that the presentation was regarding MediaBin, but since the User Group meeting was here at Nike, I figured I might as well go. I wouldn't have if it was somewhere else. And it appeared based on the attendance for this last meeting being the lightest I've ever seen, not too many others cared much either. While the presentation was great, it was utterly useless as far as anything I care about today. And there was no one there to respond to the questions of how it's going to tie into TeamSite, so all in all it was still just marketing fluff. Although it's a good idea, I just doubt that we'd be able to get enough people who would commit to meeting once a month - it's just logistically too difficult. And again, we are all so diverse in what we use Interwoven products for, I wonder if it would be useful for everyone.

Having had my coworker as the local UG president for the last year, I know he had to really push certain companies to respond and participate in his prompts for ideas and topics for upcoming UG meetings. Face it, people just don't tend to get that excited about UG meetings. I'd much rather be at a Focus Group where everyone there has a specific desire to be there and exchange ideas.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

Adam Stoller

I'll toss my $0.02 in too - now that I'm *not* an Interwoven employee, I was actually looking forward to possibly going to one of these focus group meetings that I had heard so much about before. It does seem to me to be a bit like Interwoven's cutting off their nose to spite their face - as consulting companies, external consultants and internal company consultants can often make or break an implementation - and a sale. I've seen many situations where consultants who don't know anything about a product tend to point fingers at the product as soon as something goes wrong - and 9 times out of 10 it's usually the consultant that's the problem (not to say that there aren't problems in Interwoven's products - but being able to meet and disucuss how to work-around such issues is as valuable as meeting and disucssing new and upcoming features, functionality, and product lines - IMO)

--fish
Senior Consultant, Quotient Inc.
http://www.quotient-inc.com