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6.1 user training recommendations

wadis_julia

Hiya. Are there any recommendations as of yet on 6.1 end-user training? We're going from 5.5.2 to 6.1 as soon as a training plan has been identified. Any web classes coming, or training DVDs in the works? If so, when will they be available? Thanks mucho.

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Migrateduser

How much money ya got?

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

wadis_julia

Money is a bit tight in the public sector right now. Perhaps there are "Using TeamSite 6.0" materials available? If not, we'll have to make our own.

Migrateduser

Unfortunately for customers like you, Interwoven decided making a User's Guide for the new UIs was a silly idea and so they didn't. They think you can learn all the radically new changes by using the online help facility. Good luck!

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

wadis_julia

Thank you, Dave. It appears we may need it!

Julia Lynden
State of Washington
Dept of Information Services

Migrateduser

Seriously Julia, if you can't afford the Interwoven training, you might as well load up 6.1 on a dev server if you have one, and then just play around with it. It is very different, but you can learn the basics with a little patience and frustration. If you don't have a dev server, it will be difficult for you to upgrade without turning the user's world upside down. The fact that Interwoven didn't see fit to publish a User's Guide for the new GUIs is, in my humble opinion, a blunder of mammoth proportion. I really do wish you luck. You're gonna need it.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

Migrateduser

Julia,

Fortunately this statement is not correct.

"Unfortunately for customers like you, Interwoven decided making a User's Guide for the new UIs was a silly idea and so they didn't. They think you can learn all the radically new changes by using the online help facility. Good luck!"

While there is no paper documentation, Interwoven's CyberSchool offers 6 on-line courses, 4 of which are applicable to end users.

What's New in TeamSite 6
TeamSite 6 ContentCenter Standard: Getting Started
TeamSite 6 ContentCenter Standard: Completing Tasks and Reviewing Files
TeamSite 6 ContentCenter Standard: Editing and Managing Files
TeamSite 6 ContentCenter Standard: Filling Out and Tagging Forms
Customizing the TeamSite 6 User Interface

Also, our curriculum has been updated to version 6.0. Please visit,
http://inter.viewcentral.com/events/cust/default.asp?cid=interwoven&pid=1

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

Steve

Steve Manganiello
Principal Instructional Designer, Education
Interwoven, Inc. - Sunnyvale, CA USA
Office Tel: (+1) 408-220-6965
Office Fax: (+1) 408-616-0075
Mobile: (+1) 925-200-3610
Email: Steve.Manganiello@interwoven.com <mailto:name@interwoven.com>

wadis_julia

Thank you, Steve. I am most pleased and relieved to hear this. I will include your reply in my draft notes and follow-up with you in the near future.

Migrateduser

Cyber School costs mucho dinero. Julia already said thay can't spend any money on training. Unless of course you want to give the training docs away for free...

And you didn't contradict my statement - it is absolutely true that there is no PDF User's Guide for the CCS and CCP UIs.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

Migrateduser

As surprising as this may be, we are a for-profit company. Training costs money to develop. We charge for it, much as Nike does for its sneakers.

The cost of CyberSchool is relative. I'll be more than happy to spend time explaining how at your convenience.

There is a difference between the statement "it is absolutely true that there is no PDF User's Guide for the CCS and CCP UIs." and "Interwoven thought a User's Guide for the new UIs was a silly idea".

Migrateduser

Every version of your software in the past had a User's Guide for the UI. Suddenly, when the UI encounters the most dramatic changes ever, there is no User's Guide. If there is a brilliant reason for this, please enlighten me. To me it's ridiculous, and yes, silly. If Interwoven didn't think it was silly to create a PDF version of a User's Guide, what was the reason? Nobody should have to suddenly pay for training that would be better served by a manual you have produced regularly in the past.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

gzevin

Steve,

I totally agree with Smitty on that - he just put some irony in the sentence. The rest is correct - I posted the same issue - we are really unhappy about IWOV's decision not to produce manuals for CC RPO and CC Dev. And this decision looks strange, as IWOV has issued Webdesk Pro revamped docs (provided this is an interface that is supposed to be gone soon!). I have an explanation - it was relatively easy to modify an existing document and costs much more to produce a brand new document.

(BTW, I met you in person - you were just hired at that time - during a conference in Washington DC).

Greg Zevin, Ph.D. Comp. Sc.
Independent Interwoven Consultant/Architect
Sydney, AU

Migrateduser

We have instructor-led and web-based training available for end users. We have 4 web-based classes on ContentCenter Standard. You can read about the web-based classes at http://www.interwoven.com/services/training/cyberschool/

These classes were written for 6.0 and we are now in the process of validating them with 6.1. As a maintenance release, there should be very few changes in the user experience.

We also have a "What's New in TeamSite 6" WBT which will be helpful for those making the transition from TeamSite 5.x to 6.

Migrateduser

Ah Greg.. that was so long ago.. .But I do remember. We shared drinks on the Potomac. We both, as memory serves me, have "interesting" accentsI. : )

I am not disputing the merits of the lack of printed user guides. It is the characterization to which I object.....

Migrateduser

"If there is a brilliant reason for this, please enlighten me."
If a product manager cares to enlighten you, that is up to him. However, you are not necessarily privy to how and why decisions are made. The on-line help is quite good and there is customizable on-line help. Does that replace user manuals? Don't know. Haven't seen or heard of overwhelming complaints.

"To me it's ridiculous, and yes, silly."
One man's treasure is another man's trash. I still do not like the characterization. Just because a choice was made with which you do not agree, it does not mean that it was willful or capricious.

"If Interwoven didn't think it was silly to create a PDF version of a User's Guide, what was the reason? "
Hmmm, so let me see if I have this correct;
- Produce manual - good
- Do not produce manual - silly....

I think your logic is flawed....

"Nobody should have to suddenly pay for training that would be better served by a manual you have produced regularly in the past. "
Training is training and documentation is documentation. That's why training is called training and documentation is called documentation. End users in particular need training. Document does not fill the bill for many users, especially end users.

Migrateduser

Sorry if I hurt your feelings, Steve. Fact is, you dropped the ball on this one. By choosing to stop producing a document for apparently no good reason is on you. Perhaps you haven't heard the complaints because that slew of companies really hasn't used it much. You will hear complaints, starting with these. Suddenly a document that was always there isn't when drastic changes are made to that part of the product. Laziness? Cost cutting? What's the reason? And now you casually toss it into the "training" bin? Just so you can make more money on something our employers pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for already. Why don't you let us decide whether we want to use a printed manual or training - I would love to see how many companies you polled to see if they'd rather pay for training or have a free manual. My logic is flawed? You managed to dance around the issue. You should be a product manager.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

gzevin

Steve,

you have not heard complaints, IMO, simply because the 'slew' of customers is pretty small as yet. We - the largest single organisation in Australia - do complain, and I will encourange the managment to complain even further.

I think it is simply appauling - charge zillions for a license (and maintenance) and then fail to provide basic documentation. I repeat - if IWOV had real rationale behind the idea of not issuing manuals, they would not have produced the Webdesk pro updated manual. But they did. So, the question is - why?
Because the customers did not want it? Were they ever asked?

Greg Zevin, Ph.D. Comp. Sc.
Independent Interwoven Consultant/Architect
Sydney, AU

gzevin

hm.. so much similarity in our simultaneous replies.....

Greg Zevin, Ph.D. Comp. Sc.
Independent Interwoven Consultant/Architect
Sydney, AU

Migrateduser

Yours was just a little less sarcastic. But hopefully they will pay attention to you.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

iwovGraduate

I guess if IWOV gets many complaints from customers, they will come up with a User's guide ? I no experience in business or product development, but my common sense says this is not the way for a software "product" company. Interwoven needs to be more pro-active in keeping the customers happy; not just react to complaints and frustrations.

The decision not to create a pdf Users guide -- You may not want to call it "silly" but its NOT very smart. Web-based courses do NOT replace users guide. I agree that end users need training, but that does NOT eliminate the need for documentation. End users need training as well as documentation.

Suggestion: Do a survey. Ask customers how important or useful is the User's guide.

And by the way, I did one 6.0 implementation last year. The customer was really frustrated by the lack of User documentation. Budget and time constraints did not allow to go down the "customized help" path for the initial implementation.

If you mention that there is no Users guide documentation during a sales pitch, how would it affect the chances of wining the deal ?

gzevin

if IWOV does not provide any user docs, we'll write some.. and sell it back to IWOV Smiley Happy

Greg Zevin, Ph.D. Comp. Sc.
Independent Interwoven Consultant/Architect
Sydney, AU

Migrateduser

Well then they'd have a new problem. They'd have to bring all their other documents up to the same high standards as the outsourced User's Manual. Smiley Happy

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com

Migrateduser

Smitty,

LOL!!! It would actually take more than that to hurt my feelings.

I read the silly comment yesterday, and it struck me the wrong way. I DO work for Interwoven.

"You will hear complaints, starting with these."
If there is a crescendo of complaints, then I am sure that we will deal with it.

"Just so you can make more money on something our employers pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for already."
You see this is the root of the problem. You apparently have another agenda. Your tone and attitude seems to ascribe the worst possible motives to every action the company takes. I guess I don't get it. Of all the reasons, there could possibly be, you seem to choose the worst. Well, tutti gusti son gusti...

"You should be a product manager."
Actually, I don't think I have the talent for it. I am quite happy doing what I do.

And just out of curiosity, please explain to me why Nike sells sneakers for $150?

Migrateduser

"if IWOV does not provide any user docs, we'll write some.. and sell it back to IWOV Smiley Happy

"
As fine an opportunity for a good capitalist as there ever was....

Migrateduser

How bizarre your reasoning is. It's not like you're being asked to produce something that never existed. You're justifying taking away something because you just didn't want to spend the money to produce it anymore. Then you hide behind the reasoning that "many" companies don't want it, yet I highly doubt you did any kind of query at all to most of your customers.

Is a crescendo more or less than a slew?

Apparently you assume your customers will stay with Interwoven out of sheer necessity. Good thing you're not in marketing. I struggle every day to get my users to like this product. By not producing a User's Manual for this radically new UI, you are making it much harder to do that. If that's the road you choose to go down, so be it. I believe it is a big mistake.

Don't try and compare Interwoven to Nike. It's like some of your colleagues who like to compare Interwoven to Microsoft. You're not in the same ballpark. Apples and oranges.

Dave Smith
Sr. Software Engineer
Nike, Inc.
(503) 671-4238
DavidH.Smith@nike.com