Does anyone else want to solve this problem?

Robert_Davies_(unlondonadmin_-_(deleted))

Hi folks.One of the most significant problems we have with Livelink is our inability to use *convenient* absolute URL's to reference materials within the Livelink server.If a document is already stored in the library then it will have a node-id and hence we can create an absolute URL (albeit a user unfriendly one). However a lot of our users will be working OFFLINE and with sets of documents that may not have been published yet.For example a lecturer preparing some notes for course CO105 might want to link to something in a prerequisite course CO104. She/He knows the name of the document, the course name but not knowing the relevant node-id's cannot guess the URL.You may have noticed the interesting behaviour that Livelink can make relative URL's *within* a project work. For example:Project/+----fold1/| +----doc1/+----fold2/| +----doc2/+doc3/From doc3 we can refer to doc1 as"fold1/doc1"and from doc1 we can refer to doc2 as"../fold2/doc2"This works because Netscape handles ".." and Livelink interprets folder names and resolves them as if they were node-id'd. We are told that this wasn't the original behaviour but the result of a customization requested by another customer that was deemed useful enough to get folded into the base product.Where we think they went wrong is that they didn't go far enough. It doesn't recognize Project names in the same way, nor does it provide any easy way to refer to things in the Enterprise workspace.We are looking for a solution that allows us to use URLs like:http://livelink.unl.ac.uk/livelink/livelink/enterprise/project1/folder1/doc2.htmle.g.http://livelink.unl.ac.uk/livelink/livelink/enterprise/CO101/intro2java/javatutorial.htmlThis requires a customization of the dispatcher to handle project names & an "enterprise" alias (which you might change to something else or just leave out altogether).So what i'd like to know is:-(a) are we really the only people who need this kind of functionality?and(b) does anyone out there have the knowledge of the dispatcher that might be needed to do the customization? Maybe have a prebuilt module? Or be willing to collaborate on producing one?Best regards/matt.

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Mike_Oliver_(ollie_(Delete)_137504)

Livelink is CGI and because of that the URL examples you use are not possible with Livelink because the "?" is the part of the protocol required by CGI. The portion after that is up to livelink.exe. You could modify the dispatcher to look for non-compliant URLs and try to find the Livelink hierarchy to match. The problem there is that Livelink currently defaults to the Enterprise view if it can't parse the http request into valid cgi.Other Livelink customers have used OTC Professional Services to customize Livelink with a module called "Passive Publish" which copies documents to the filesystem so they can be mapped and accessed directly through the http server. This would give you the URL simplicity you asked for, but this does not provide a different way to manage the documents just for read access via the "Published" interface. See your sales rep for the details on "Passive Publish"

Mike_Oliver_(ollie_(Delete)_137504)

The problem with URLS that are based on the path to them comes into play if you move or rename them...the use of Node IDs to locate documents solves that problem and bookmarks to a document will be valid even long after the document is renamed and or moved.

Robert_Davies_(unlondonadmin_-_(deleted))

Hi Ollie.I think there is a misconception underlying the assumptions present in your response. We perceive a huge rise in the use of mobile computing as evidenced by the success of the Palm platform and the development of products like Oracle Lite.Moreover in the UK we do not get free local call's and hence offsite tends to be synonymous with offline. Never the less we anticipate users are going to want to dial-in and *grab* some discussion topics, change agent reports, tasks and so on. Our present problem is that we see a situation in which our lecturers (and students) will be creating work while disconnected from the system (perhaps on vacation in the south of France, or maybe even in the sunny USA) and maybe only connecting briefly when they ready to upload a set of documents.In this situation they will be *unable* to find out the node-id of existing documents, and obviously cannot know the node-id of a document/folder that doesn't exist yet. Theymight reasonably know the name though, e.g. their module MS302 and an agreed folder name 'Images'. By creating such standards we can establish a useful framework for publishing that will work for all of our users.What I contend is that it is possible to get the kind of user-friendly URLs that we feel we need. For example:http://horus.unl.ac.uk/livelink/livelink/fetch/2072/25245/index.htmlworks fine on my system. The '?' you refer to is only required if you are sending parameters to a CGI. In this case Livelink is actually parsing the parameters as part of the path info which is quite an ingenious solution.We understand that using names does mean making compromises such as having to be careful when moving and/or renaming certain things. In such a situation as I describe (extensive offline usage) and relying on node-id's what is your solution to our publishing problem? Will you be announcing 'Livelink Lite' any time soon?Best regards/matt.

Mike_Oliver_(ollie_(Delete)_137504)

Well I certainly didn't misconceive the desireability of your request, in fact I attended the IETF meetings in Chicago last year and went to the WebDav BOF where just such scenarios were presented. I am in Tucson Arizona and I travel a great deal, so I understand the need for OffLine so I don't think I misconceived any part of that, nor do I see any implications in my response to that need.You however do say that, "The '?' you refer to is only required if you are sending parameters to a CGI." My point exactly! You also state, "We understand that using names does mean making compromises such as having to be careful when moving and/or renaming certain things.", well to coin a phrase, "I think there is more to it than that." You apparently skipped over the second paragraph where I described "Passive Publish" which is a Professional Services Module. I have attached the Release Notes for the latest version and I can give you a demonstration of its capabilities. It is already installed and in production at several customer sites.To summarize, Livelink IS CGI, and while fetch does allow relative operations and the path is parsed as you correctly observed, that DOES NOT mean that Livelink can or should move to node names vs. node IDs. Perhaps the path parser can be extended to include relative names to make your desires closer to reality. In the short term, PassivePublish might serve your needs. As for Livelink Lite, I equate that to Livelink Low.

Jonathan_Morgan-Jones_(TMATelecomAdmin_(Delete)_14

Being new to the knowledge base I came across this discussion while browsing. I find myself agreeing with both of you, however the fundamental issue of how to 'connect' Livelink offline users remains unanswered.While not wanting to re-interprete matt's request for 'Livelink Lite', I understood that to mean a remote client capable of synching with the Livelink server (A la Lotus Notes or My Netscape). In that way the 'Lite' reference refers to folders and documents the user refers to regularly, 'mirrored' locally for that user. The browser based Livelink client remains as powerful as the server version - It's just the data that's 'Lite'.Just thought I'd throw that in, as a client tool of that type would certainly make my life a great deal easier.Jon.

Mike_Oliver_(ollie_(Delete)_137504)

How about a "Thin Client On Steriods"? With OLE Automation, and ActiveX components a Visual Basic Application with an embedded Internet Explorer Window, could access Livelink just like any other browser, but could also download and execute ActiveX objects to do just about any Client side processing you can imagine. From controlling scanners to converting documents to assembly and printing of merged documents. Even a local Jet Database with local copies of documents that have been checked out...so what do you think?

Robert_Davies_(unlondonadmin_-_(deleted))

Hi folks.Aren't steroids bad for you? ;-)Seriously, Mike, I do think that what you are proposing will be very warmly welcomed by lots of your customers, particularly large corporations with a lot of Windows desktops. But it isn't quite what I think of when I think "Livelink lite." In our view a mobile client of the future isn't going to be a powerful windows desktop (which is really what you are talking about when you invoke VBA and ActiveX in the same sentence.) For example I would like staff & students to be able to walk into our buildings and have their wireless palmtops pull down their mail, news channels, change agents, calendar events and so forth - in real time. That's part of our vision that I would like to be providing now if Icould! PalmOS devices are everywhere right now and that's not likely to change any time soon. The recent deal between Psion and Ericsson means there will probably be a lot more EPOC in the future as well. Microsoft are going to keep pushing WinCE hard. I think any strategy for mobile computing has to take these factors into account. But the nature of these clients mean that you don't really want to carry a large application around with you. You want individual chunks of application functionality that you can chop and change as necessary. Have you seen PylonPro? (www.globalware.com) I think its an example of what could be a 'killer application.' It provides Lotus Notes users with a simple way to turn a Lotus Notes app into a PalmOS app that can can be downloaded onto the Palm, and synchronise with Notes during the regularHotSync. Our feeling is that in the near to medium future Java and XML will be playing significant roles in delivering mobile solutions. Already there is a product called Waba from WabaSoft (www.wabasoft.com) that is a functional JavaVM for PalmOS and Windows CE. Applications written for one can be run on the other. To go back to Livelink, I'm not suggesting that these things are achievable over night. But that they should be part of the road map. A good first step from my point of view would be the ability to synchronise my Livelink task list with the PalmOS task list and the Outlook task list. From my own experience I think this will require a radically better LAPI/Java product and that this should be a priority for OTC. In terms of Livelink lite I think that OTC should be starting to draw up a feature set and inviting their customers to get involved in that process.Livelink lite could be a killer application for OpenText and my PalmV is waiting! Best regards/matt.

Dylan_Barrell_(DBarrell_(Delete)_96062)

... the reason that it doesn't work is not due to the CGI program or even the ?. I am sure that if you told the user to enter the "http://blah.com/livelink/livelink.exe?" followed by a path they could construct easily by simply knowing the structure of their Livelink system, then they would be happy.This is possible to do. it simply isn't done in Livelink.